#also I just really want the realisation and acceptance of being the villain in AFO’s pov | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

allmightluver · 4 years ago

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**bnha spoilers** I'm just sat here with renewed realisation of what All Might is going through. 40 years. /40 years/ he held and refined that power and dedicated his every waking (and sleeping if Vigilantes is anything to go by) moment towards the goal of defeating AfO and creating a society in which people could feel happy and safe. And now as it turns out AfO is still alive, society is broken and he has given a literal piece of his soul to this young boy leaving himself with only phantoms

Yes. I don’t think people quite grasp what all he’s going through.

It’s been shown recently to us that some, if not most, heroes have underlying ambitions in becoming a hero. Whether for money, glory, fame, popularity, doesn’t matter. They’re ultimately in it for themselves. Toshinori’s intentions from the beginning have been the most pure- he wanted to be a symbol that people can look to and know things will be ok. A symbol of hope. This boy was only around 14 years old when he decided this. What kind of 14 year old sees the world that clearly? Sees that people have no hope, that a veil of darkness covers them. The only thing I can think of is- Toshinori did not have a good childhood. Something had to have happened to a boy that young to stop seeing the joy in life so early, and see the world’s flaws. Truthfully, I believe he was an outcast- due to his quirklessness. Most likely an orphan, perhaps abandoned by his parents, as we’ve never seen him have any family. I do truly believe Toshinori has been alone all his life. I don’t doubt more could have happened to him as a child before he met Nana.

Some may argue that Izuku is the same age, and therefore it shouldn’t be that hard to see why Toshinori wanted to be a hero at such a young age. BUT, Izuku had someone to look up to, ever since he was a child of four years old, to inspire him to be a hero his whole life *cough cough* All Might. Izuku also was quirkless, much like Toshinori, and an outcast because of it (hence where I assume Toshinori was much the same). But ultimately, Izuku wanted to save people because he saw his hero do it. It really wasn’t until Izuku was a bit older, has been in UA, has been on rescue missions, has seen what the heroes see, that I think he’s truly realized how dark the world really is. Toshinori didn’t have that. He didn’t have someone to inspire him as a child, someone to look up to, a hero to inspire him to help others. At that time, heroes hadn’t become as popular as they are in present times. Toshinori saw the world for what it was, on his own, at a tender age. I think that day Nana ran into this blonde hair kid, she eyed him up, noticed his scraggly form, looked into those captivating blue eyes, and saw a man who’s lived through the world’s horrors- experienced the worst it has to offer-, and wants to save everyone he can from the same fate, all in a 14 year old boy.

Then after only a few short years with the woman he saw as his mother, she’s killed in front of him because of his own weakness- he wasn’t strong enough yet to protect her. The only other person his life, Gran Torino, literally abused him. He beat him to a pulp, taking his own emotions out on a teenager, and I doubt Toshinori said anything of it. He probably thought he deserved it. He’s still afraid of Gran Torino to this day, remembering the beatings and expecting more for his failures- even if he doesn’t know what they are surely he’s at fault for something, but he’s the only person who’s stood by his side for this long. Even while at a distance, and spouting nothing but criticisms along the way. But Toshinori had to put aside his own emotions to be that hope for everyone. He left everything he knew to go to a new country on his own, to learn how to be a hero, to be that hope for someone.

Vigilantes showed us just how hard he worked. Toshinori literally stayed awake with no sleep for days on end- 3 in the chapter I’m referencing- because people needed help, people needed saving, and no one else stepped up. He fought villains, rescued civilians, repaired damage, cleared rubble, (even accept and eat food that was against his dietary restrictions after his injury) whatever the public needed, all while draining himself further. He worked himself to the point of exhaustion because he had no help, once literally falling asleep while mid-leap across the city because he simply could go no further.

^^These happen in succession of each other^^

No one stepped up to say “Hey, Mr. Number 1, you’ve been working hard lately. Let me help you!” No one tried to take over his position. Even the Number 2 hero, Endeavor, never tried to take some of his burden. His only goal was to try to be better than All Might in terms of power- he was never trying to be the hero that the people relied on All Might for. Everyone relied on him when things looked grim. He was the back up plan. And all of this happened before Toshinori’s injury.

The only thing he ever wanted to do- help people- he can’t do (at least the way he’s always known how to). The ability to save people has been taken from him in the most gruesome way. He was finally able to fight the man that killed Nana, and in a rage that I’m sure echoed with all of the emotions of the previous users, he smashed that man’s head like a grape. But not without consequence. Several organs are gone. The pain is excruciating. He wears that man’s mark on his body for the rest of his life, never truly able to rid himself of the filth.

Then we have Nighteye’s betrayal. The man that helped him as a sidekick, the man that grew to be his only friend. Now some people may ask why Toshinori flipped like he did to Nighteye looking into his future when he was concerned about him making it through his injury. What I believe is Toshinori didn’t want to know when he would die (and really, who does). Now he knows he’s on a time limit, knows the clock is ticking. Time is running out to keep the world at peace, and with him as he is now, how long can this go on?

I think the betrayal, doing something that Toshinori specifically asked him not to do, is what hurt the most. How can he trust Nighteye anymore? He already can only count on one hand the people he can trust, let alone befriend.

He’s wasted away into a skeleton, a shell of the man he used to be. He can’t over exert himself without his only lung bleeding in protest. It’s canon in the side books that he really doesn’t eat much, which isn’t good for his diet without a stomach now (he’s supposed to have several small meals a day). He is quite literally punishing himself by starving. (Granted, he doesn’t feel hunger anymore.) He’s a sick man, beyond medical help at this point. They can only stabilize him and hope for the best. For five years now he’s in constant pain, every day. He loses blood like sweat. Surely his veins are bruised and collapsed with how many times he would have needed to be hospitalized. Whether from losing too much blood, being too dehydrated or starved from “forgetting” to eat, or an organ failing as body continues to fall apart. “...even as my body rots and grows frail...” - Toshinori People are bound to stare at him as he walks down the street. A tall, willowy, skeleton with a grimace on his face and blood stains on his clothes as he coughs up more into his own hands. There would be the ones who outright ignore him when they walk by, the people who offer pitying smiles and sympathetic glances or just outright stare, and then ones who are afraid of his appearance- children screaming at the mere sight of him and running to their parents to hide from the monster. Each one is another knife in Toshinori’s side, an ache in his chest. If only they knew who I really am.

Losing Nighteye took a toll on his hero work as well. Mirai was a huge help in the past, and took care of all Toshinori’s paperwork, while also reminding him to take care of himself. Without him, Toshinori was even more buried beneath his responsibilities. Plus, now he was on a time limit. He even snapped briefly in his first meeting with Tsukauchi, accidentally revealing himself as All Might because he was under too much pressure, and telling the detective he literally couldn’t handle doing everything by himself (who graciously took over the paperwork side of things for him).

He was living a double life now, having to lie to people left and right about who he was while in his small form, about how he became so sickly, why he was here in the first place who the heck is this skinny old guy. Surely he had multiple visits to the doctor while continuing to repair the damage done by AFO (there’s a limit to how much the body can handle at once. And things I’m sure continued to fail as time went on). Then he would be bedridden for as long as the doctors could keep him strapped to a bed, until he couldn’t take the people’s cries for help any longer, and would jump into action. (It’s also revealed he has something of a super hearing- able to hear danger- which may have been a form of danger sense of OFA that was never fully unlocked?. Either way, he surly could sense disasters happening while he could only lay and heal from his latest surgery. Those poor doctors must have had to re-stitch him several times). People blame him for not preparing society for his retirement, that he failed in passing on the torch so to speak, but in reality he did everything possible to keep society from falling for 40 years, doing all within his power just to keep things afloat. He is only one person. One human being, he can’t do everything despite trying to. Society failed All Might.

People blame him for not being a good teacher. He didn’t exactly have the greatest teacher himself to learn from. He’s never had to teach anyone anything, he just punches! He’s learning. And for his own credit, he’s an incredibly wise man, he has years of experience under his belt, and an intelligence score of 6/6, scoring up there with Nezu! He may not always have the right way to bring something up, but he’s doing his best. Yet even he blames himself for Izuku not being able to control his quirk better. Every time the boy hurts himself, it’s just another tally on the chalkboard of Toshinori’s failures. He himself knows the boy deserves better, better than him. Useless. Pathetic.

Then his friend from America, Dave, essentially became a villain trying to preserve Toshinori’s legacy after Toshinori told him about his injury. Dave went behind his back, threatened people, injured people (pretty sure people died), all for Toshinori’s sake. Something he didn’t want to begin with. Having to put your only other friend in jail for trying to help you surely couldn’t have been easy.

Oh, by the way? All For One isn’t dead. All Might will fight him again, publicly, have his weakened form exposed to the world, and have his own emotions toyed with as he finds out about his master’s grandson in the villain’s hands. Would Nana hate him for leaving her son alone like she’d asked, and dooming her grandchild to be raised by the greatest villain? Could he have done anything to save him? But Toshinori isn’t allowed to feel, he has to smile and push his own feelings aside once again, because there’s a villain to be fought, and only he can fight him. Despite coming out on top, he’ll have suffered severe head trauma, broken left arm, destroyed right arm, and several cuts and bruises that are sure to scar. And then, his quirk, the only thing that’s been allowing him to help people, the gift given to him that he carefully held for 40 years and molded into his own until his very consciousness was permanently carved into it, blows out like a match in the wind. And he’s done. Used up. Empty. Broken. Hollow. Alone, again.

He overhears his student, Bakugo, admit that he blames himself for All Might’s retirement. If he hadn’t been captured, All Might wouldn’t have had to save him, and he wouldn’t have had to fight AFO. Of course Toshinori knows that’s not true, his time was about to run out anyway. It would have happened one way or another. But how can he explain to this child that he wasn’t the cause of his hero, the world’s greatest hero, fighting for his sake, bleeding for his sake, being forced into retirement to keep him safe. Every time Bakugo sees the bandages covering Toshinori’s body is another reminder of the pain and sacrifice Toshinori willingly gave to keep him safe. Toshinori wasn’t held when his mentor died. He wasn’t told it was ok to be sad, that grief and mourning was a natural process, that it takes time to heal. He wasn’t told it was ok to cry. Instead his feelings were beaten out of him as he wondered if Gran Torino blamed him for Nana’s death. He already blamed himself How then, does he comfort a child mourning for him? For what he lost.

And then he gets the call to come to the hospital. Mirai, Nighteye, his old sidekick friend, has been gravely injured, much like he himself was only a few years ago, and most likely won’t survive the night. And to his horror, Nighteye is happy to see him, smiles at him, says he doesn’t hate him for what happened, only wants Toshinori to be happy. He can’t accept that, at least let him apologize, reconcile his sins before it’s too late! But it is. Another fractured piece of his heart gone.

Of course, seeing your students beat up and their arms completely destroyed must have hurt. Instead of being able to save these kids, they’re the ones that hurt themselves to save everyone else. And if Bakugo had kept OFA, things could have been very different (especially with what we know now of OFA and people with quirks). Toshinori wasn’t mad at Izuku for transferring it away, he’d never regret choosing Izuku, and I believe he still would have stayed by Izuku and Bakugo’s side should it have stayed in Bakugo, doing whatever he could to help.

As he tells Aizawa, “I’ve decided to live,” -that statement seems so melancholy, besides obvious reasons. It sounds more like another task he has to accomplish. He didn’t die he was supposed to die with the AFO fight, and now the whole life he lived is over. The world has no use for him anymore. If not for Izuku, he’d have nothing left keeping him here. But because his boy made him promise to live, he’ll do so. Though it almost seems like he says those words with regret. “I’ve decided to live.” Not, “I’m going to live!” “Nothing can kill me!” “I won’t go down without a fight!” No. “I’ll live if I have to, only because you asked me to.” The man is obviously and outwardly depressed. He has so many things against him. No doubt has severe PTSD, anxiety, among others. Not to mention his own physical health. Every day hurts. It’s painful to be alive. Why would he torture himself if he doesn’t have to? For you, my boy. You’re the only thing keeping me here. The only light in my dark world.

He tries to help Izuku find out the previous holder’s quirks, to help his boy in any way he can now that he’s worthless, and goes days on end without sleep, running his body into the ground. He even forgets Christmas. Only to find that by giving the boy the same gift he had received, he may have just doomed him to an early death, among psychological torture (danger detection). (Granted, he really doesn’t know how everything works, and he’s afraid to talk to anyone about it). His boy could live only half a life.

It’s only been a few months since he retired, and society has fallen into shambles. People are blaming him. People are dying. He watches helplessly as his colleague fight his fight for him, and end up battered, bruised, crippled, dead. He students, his boy, battle the monster he should have killed. Children are bleeding. This shouldn’t happen. This wasn’t supposed to happen. Is everything he worked for, everything he fought to protect, to build up, to inspire, is all for naught?! Did he live a foolish dream and doom the world? Was all the the friends he lost, tears he shed, the organs he destroyed, the pain he endures on a daily basis from the hole in his side, and the blood he continues to bleed every day, for nothing? The public, the ones he protected for so long, mourn his absence, but surely there are those among them who also blame him. The statue from his last fight in Kamino one that he never asked for was decimated in a mock of his catch phrase- the one that was supposed to give hope.

Now he can feel his own vestige speaking with Izuku in the OFA realm, even with out OFA in his own body anymore. His clock as nearly reached it’s limit, Nighteye’s prediction is due any day now. The only thing he wants is to see his boy smile at him, to give him some shred of hope. Yet the child remains unconscious, and Toshinori can’t even hold his hand from the bandages covering his arms. Will he still be able to fight? Is there any coming back from this now? Did I break him?

With all Toshinori has been through, I’m honestly surprised we haven’t seen him just outright break down. Anyone, anyone, else should have crumbled under the pressure of holding up the world for 40 years alone. And instead of being able to pass it on to someone when he can no longer bear its weight, it simply falls to into the abyss. People don’t credit All Might enough for everything he’s done. Most don’t realize the sacrifices he’s made. His character is so unbelievably profound and deep, it’s more than just the “I am here!” people focus on. He’s a deeply troubled, layered, complex character. And I can’t find fault within him.

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mettywiththenotes · 3 years ago

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Shigaraki and Izuku inspire each other, even if they don’t mean to

One thing that I don’t see anyone talk about is how Shigaraki and Izuku inspire each other without actually meaning to. While there is evidence to show this in the events of what they choose to do, I’ve also noticed a visual key related to it; they have sparks in their eyes when they are inspired in these moments

Take for instance, in Shigaraki’s case, the Mall Scene

Shiggy was down on his luck until a certain kid who he hated showed up and Shiggy decided to have a little play, scare the shit out of him and mess around. He asked Izuku about his problems, but I don’t think he was truly expecting Izuku to be brave enough to answer so honestly

What he was given in the end was almost a challenge from Izuku

“You aren’t as popular as Stain because you have no aim. Stain has an end in sight, a goal to actually complete, but you only destroy because you want to.” is basically what Izuku said

And Shiggy realises what he has to do, what his conviction is, when he realizes that killing All Might will show everyone how fragile society is

And he leaves with a conviction, and inspiration

I mean, just look at the before and after with this guy:

He’s pissed off cuz of the mention of Stain, so he’s storming out to do some Walking And Thinking

Contemplative about his situation, wondering what to do, asking questions - there’s no spark in his eyes because he’s so conflicted. Should he accept the new members anyway, despite their only motivation being because of Stain? Or should he shove them away for even mentioning Stain when they should be motivated by the League, or even just to change society? Why does Stain have to come into it? - and with this thought process, it leads to the inevitable big question of “What does Stain’s influence have that mine doesn’t?”

The man has more questions than answers, which is what angers him most. With Shiggy being so conflicted, what is he to do?

And then he sees Izuku! And the spark in his eye returns for a second!

It goes away as he’s talking to the kid, presumably because what Izuku said is a hard truth and he doesn’t like that

But then he’s glad for the “advice” and is set to work on improvements for what he’s done wrong

And look at his face afterwards! Positively elated, inspired! The spark in his eye is back!

Izuku unknowingly gave Tomura the key to improvement and development. He gave Shiggy the push he needed to form a more solid purpose in his destruction

But it doesn’t end there. Flipping through to the War Arc, we have the Void Battle

Where Izuku realises that Shiggy is being hurt and has been hurt this entire time. It’s where he looks deeper into Shiggy and sees the crying child, young Tenko, and realises that Shiggy has been in turmoil for years

And throughout the Yoichi and Nana vs AFO talk/battle, Izuku’s eyes don’t have that spark in them. Which isn’t really strange, considering that Izuku literally just saw Bakugou get fucking stabbed

But the progression of it goes like this; Yoichi expresses how Izuku is a worthy vessel and that the Vestiges want to stay with him

And something shines in Izuku’s eyes. It’s not a spark, not quite, but it’s a shine. But you know when the spark DOES return, even for just the briefest second?

When Izuku sees Shiggy being suffocated and leaps to stop it

As he DOES leap, there is no spark, because as I said, it was just for a second. But I think what’s important to grasp here is that the spark appeared when he looked at Shigaraki, a Villain, hurting and in pain

And ever since then, Izuku has been working tirelessly to stop AFO. Along the way, he realises the corruptness of society (even just a little), and he begins to switch his mindset; to see that Villains usually have reasons for their actions and violence, and it’s up to Heroes to try to change their situation, to give them a chance to be better, at least offer support, or to stop the violence as peacefully as possible instead of the alternative, which is allowing them to be locked away without a second thought, or in worse cases, killing them)

And, as a lot of people have pointed out, Izuku’s eyes were so dulled and jaded. He was so tired, stressed and self destructive - in such a bad place with himself

The spark in his eyes didn’t return until Lady Nagant’s battle. She tells him he is ignorant for hoping for a brighter future, and Izuku tells her that he may have been ignorant, but he is starting to see the truth now. When he says this, he brings up his own little compilation of people

He thinks of Shigaraki twice, and in fact, he even remembers Shiggy’s own quote about the maggots. Izuku is now thinking back on what he said in the war and re-evaluating his view on both Shigaraki and Villains in general. All of these thoughts on what Shiggy meant and his anguish show that that moment in the Void changed him, made him more empathetic to the Villains he encounters

He thinks of what Shigaraki said, and you know what?

The shine returns, just the briefest small thing, along with the reminder and conviction of wanting to extend a helping hand. The shine actually seems like the same kind he had when Yoichi expressed Izuku was worthy

And with that reminder of saving people who are troubled and hurt, the spark fully comes back when he sees Nagant, a person who has suffered so much, and decides to catch her before she falls to her death. He tells her that he saw that she was holding back, proving that she “wasn’t all bad”

All of this started with seeing Shigaraki suffering in the Void, and thus means that Shigaraki inspired Izuku, just as Izuku inspired him in the Mall

It’s just... I find it interesting yet funny how they just continuously inspire each other without actually meaning to. They are supposed to be enemies, they don’t need to make each other think differently or change their mindset, but that’s exactly what happened. Even if not at all purposefully, I still really like that

#look at my boys growing up and getting character development #*sniffles* i'm so proud #you don't have to follow the eye thing but #you can't deny that they inspire each other #based on the evidence given #anyway i love them and i miss them interacting #i wonder what kind of gems we will get when they meet again #i can't wait #bnha #boku no hero academia #bnha spoilers #bnha manga spoilers #izuku midoriya #tomura shigaraki #shigaraki and midoriya #shigaraki and midoriya analysis #tw choking #metty posts #mettys posts

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hamliet · 3 years ago

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Hi! Thanks for answering

About Touya, I really hope your right. As far I mostly agree. It just in such a nerd for medical stuff and while your reading is very nice and I really hope it plays something similar (or instead of losing his quirk , Touya’s quirk getting back to colder flames or similar) if Hori goes for a simil realistic anatomy I’m worried for the health affect. With how it’s progressing on his face, which is not the part he ignite the most, the body might be even in a worse condition and this would led Touya to be in a pinch in an health care POV. Maybe more than Eri i really miss Overhaul’s quirk. That would patch him good enough! Who knows if AFO quirk contain a similar one…

About Toga, I see you’re very knowledgable! I’m much attuned with the concept of sublimation, the issue about her though is that she is more than fine with the method she came to find right now. Sure she had really improved. She loves the league yet no one fell victim of her so she has some restraint, however sublimation is much harder to consegue once you already taste the “real stuff” (or what her minds perceived it to be). In fact usually serial killers tends to have an increasing escalation after the first time they realise their fantasies/philias as they want “more”. Strictly put I find it hard to think Toga might get content with being a surgeon satisfying her desire for blood after having being one with her loved ones already. A pre first victim Toga , I could totally see her, but as she is right now I find it even harder especially because her first victim was not intentionally (she didn’t want to harm , she wanted to become one). Wouldn’t be any form of sublimation unsatisfying at this point? Especially because thanks to this last chapter we now know that her desire for blood and gore is much more complex than a simple fixation. The more I look into her the more i see a proper paraphilia of her for blood , and usually this type of things tends to be perceived as unavoidable by the person. Unless she finds a partner who is up to vampirism I don’t see how she can quell her thirst for the desire to “become one” which is symbolically linked to drink their blood.

And this was the core of my question! Maybe o express myself not correctly. And also I expressed wrongly when I told she is just a villain for the lust for blood. Yes you are right, what I meant is that at the base of that exclusion by both parents and society started because people couldn’t come to accept and aid an eventual sublimation with this desire of her. The place it under the carpet , forced her and mistreated her and that’s the result. What I meant is that nowadays Toga’s complex is fully expressed and well defined and it’s a big important in her being a villain. This also pile up with what happened to Jin and the league philosophy, which formed hers to (to live and die normally merging into one with the one she loves).

So to rephrase better my question: what do you think Toga can practically do/ what do you think will be Toga endgame to be saved keeping in account that her desire and core of desiring blood can’t really coexist with society because she will be prone to repaet what happened with the first victim? How can Toga manage/ control that desire without stopping to be herself? Or do you think her desire for blood will transform further and eventual stop to being this but it will be something different (maybe that’s what you were trying to tell, if that’s the case sorry if I di don’t get it before) ? Basically : how will toga live with her desire for blood after the endgame ?

I don't think Hori's going for remotely realistic anatomy, sorry! I think there's 0 chance of that. Even in universe the rules for anatomy are pretty much never followed (Deku's arms and legs).

As for Toga, I think, again, you're being too realistic when it comes to this story. BNHA is a fantasy in a lot of ways, and it is not in any way a seinen; it's as shonen as they get. There's no digging into the psychology with any intent.

Toga has *not* shown escalation at all; in fact, if anything she's shown more restraint as the story continues. She just doesn't have that. I would guess she'd be able to use her quirk to do something heroic by the end, and/or be friends with the other kids at UA, maybe even join them. Again, realism is not really an element of this story when it comes to that kind of thing. What she wanted in the first place was to have a good way to use her quirk, but no one gave that to her. I would guess she'd get one afterwards, but the how and specifics if you squint aren't likely going to deeply dug psychological certainty.

I do think Toga's arc, while technically pretty good, might be less... important or have less of a punch at the end because her parallel is Uraraka, and Horikoshi isn't good with writing female characters. Meaning if some things get glossed over, I wouldn't be surprised.

#ask hamliet #toga himiko #toga himiko redemption #bnha #mha #sorry but i think this is the wrong story for that kind of medical accuracy!#physically and mentally

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ignitification · 4 years ago

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I hope,like genuinely hope Deku knows what he's doing.like shigaraki isn't gonna change.man's out for Destruction and wants to destroy everything along with society.shigaraki could kill All Might.It's impossible to save Everyone.there are people that won't change

Also I deeply doubt the villians are gonna get Redemption arcs.being saved doesn't mean Redemption or being kept alive.like shigaraki isn't a child anymore, he's literally a grown man,and so is Touya/Dabi.I hope Deku knows what he's doing.

Like what's gonna happen if Deku does save him?what will he accomplish?will shigaraki have a change of heart and become good?No.

Like shigaraki is literally murdering innocent people,and Did a whole ton of other evil stuff.him and the League(well not All of the league)are literally irredeemable.being a hero means you have to take risks and drastic measures to protect the ones you care for and love.deku has to know shigaraki is far gone.deku is still this naive child who thinks he can save everyone.

I think Deku has to loose someone important to him to realize that,like Shigaraki has to Kill All Might.

Shigaraki has been raised to destroy. Horikoshi, however, gave us insight into Shigaraki’s ‘motives’ and feeling, which still are hung on the fact that he has not accepted (not fully) his guilt over killing his family. Over his family not wanting him as he was. Over society who trusted heroes so much that when he was wondering the streets no one held out a hand, because they felt sure that this was the heroes job.

I am so sorry that I don’t remember where I read this from, but in a beautiful meta I read someone said that Shigaraki’s obsession over killing All Might stems from the fact that Shigaraki blames him for failing to save him not once, but twice. Especially given the connection that ties Shigaraki, Nana and Toshinori. And the thing is: Shigaraki is not only Shigaraki anymore. And of course he wants the destruction of society, or rather, in the state he is know he thinks that destruction of society is a necessary consequence of his plan to be the new demon lord, or whatever shit AfO has going on.

Furthermore, the exact point I wanted to highlight before is that Shigaraki’s deep down desires are that of a child. He has been compared to a child multiple times, but this is very true especially in the aspect that Tenko Shimura never grew up of his phase of wanting to be a hero. Wanting to be seen, felt and accepted. Wanting to be praised. Wanting to be regarded as good. This is why he is resisting AfO’s will to this extend: Shigaraki accepted destruction as his only destiny because he thought there was nothing else. The panel of Shigaraki saying: “since when, did we ever need a future?” is indication that neither Shigaraki (nor Dabi for that matter) believe there is a future after this. They want to destroy the ‘now’, because they think there is no ‘after’. And this always comes back to AfO raising Shigaraki in that way, and to Endeavour who placed such a low value over Touya’s life that he ended up regarding as something instrumental to use, instead of cherishing to move forward. What I am saying with this, is there is no need for a change of heart, because a part of these villains (not ALL villains, here I am referring to particularly Shigaraki and Dabi, however I retain this might be as well applied to Spinner, Toga and Twice) have ALWAYS had a place In where they hoped, in vain, that another solution would come up. That justice, which failed them again and again, would finally prevail. That they would have a choice. Which did not happen, because as we saw a Quirk-based society evaluates people in ‘Heroes’ and ‘Villains’, which means that if you are not part of one category, you are automatically part of the other.

As for Deku, I don’t think he needs to lose someone dear to him to realise anything. Izuku is a highly intelligent character, and the fact that he is hung up on his own definition of hero is still the last obstacle he needs to overcome - but we saw him finally accepting his ‘fate’ as the one having to save Shigaraki, and by that leaving behind any hope for a future, or rather, a hope for a future in which he is not a danger to all the people he is close to. Shigaraki could have killed All Might already - however, this is not his main goal anymore: ‘he’ wants OfA, which is now in Izuku’s hands (making him the most direct victim on his own actions) - and to become someone who rules over Japan again. Technically, All Might is not a threat anymore so I don’t really see Shigaraki killing All Might as a necessary action to condition Deku into deciding not to save him (however, this does not mean this could not happen, but If it does it will be as a consequence or of AM trying to protect Deku or an aftermath of the battle against AfO). Anyways, in terms on my forecast for the timeline of the manga - this event does not match, because I think Horikoshi will go or for a last minute conversion of some villain to defeat AfO, which is clearly the case for at least Shigaraki in my opinion, or a long fought war with people trying to understand the other side at another timing way before the ‘last battle’ (Touya and Toga - maybe even Kurogiri, if there is a way for Shirakumo to come back). Which means that it would be pretty disappointing if Horikoshi decided to let Shigaraki kill All Might just to get back at Izuku (or to let him have consequences from the act).

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thevoidable · 4 years ago

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Why Spinaraki is an underrated gem of a ship

Okay, so first of all I just have to make a quick disclaimer: this is not to discredit other Shigaraki and Spinner ships, this is just to highlight why I think these two in particular are just neat.

Also, manga spoiler warning, as per usual. Content below the cut.

Why their characters work

Spinaraki’s dynamic is something that I feel like is overlooked by a lot of bnha fans, even from a platonic sense, so I’d like to briefly go over their individual characters to reiterate why they’re such a good match for each other.

Starting off, Shigaraki is an absolutely brilliantly-written villain, with a deep and complex past and personality that make him more than your average end-game bad guy. His broken mind that has been beaten to hell and back by severe trauma is still able to recognise flaws within society and the people that live in it, and has come such a long way since his first debut in the series. But what makes him stand out from most other villains is just how human and empathetic he is deep down.

Despite all of AFO’s grooming into making him a hate-filled, destruction-craving god, Shigaraki still retains a key quality from his childhood: a desire to befriend the friendless.

The reason why the League is such a good portrayal of a found family is because of this innate want to sympathize and look after the outcasts in his life. It didn’t take much time at all for him to come to respect the other members of the League by the time the Overhaul arc came around, and during the MVA arc, it’s clear he cares deeply about their wants and needs. He’s patient and listens to them, valuing their opinions greatly.

And now it’s time to turn our attention to the underrated character of this underrated ship: Spinner.

Spinner was understandably one of the more forgettable villains during the training camp arc - all he had to his character was that he was a hardcore Stain fanboy and nothing more.

However, that all changed when the MVA arc dropped, and we saw a side to Spinner that ties in to one of the BNHA universe’s underlying problems in their superhuman society, and made him so much more three-dimensional, lovable, and relatable. A victim of heteromorphic discrimination, Spinner was outcasted in his hometown and forced into reclusion, where he wasted his life away in his room lest he step outside and risk being called a freak again. It wasn’t until he saw Stain plaguing the news that he was finally inspired to act, seeking out the League who claimed to uphold Stain’s ideology.

At his core, Spinner was simply searching for something to jump on, something that would make him get up and make significant change in his life, and looking at his backstory, it’s no wonder why Stain’s ideals struck a chord with him. He has plenty of reason to despise society like the rest of the League, but his experience with being discriminated against also makes him a sympathetic and sensitive character. He recognises that he’s extremely out of place in the world, even amongst the League, because he was the last one of them to figure out what he really wanted in the end, and it’s clear he has plenty of insecurities when it comes to questioning his purpose in life, comparing himself to others - like Toga, another fan of Stain - and how they seem to fit in so easily.

It’s because of these insecurities that Shigaraki and Spinner work well together, because Shigaraki’s patience, understanding, and confidence is what allowed Spinner to solidify his conviction and come to terms with the fact that not 100% fitting in and just coming along for the ride is perfectly okay.

How their chemistry develops

Spinner and Shigaraki’s first proper on-screen interaction was during the highway scene after the Overhaul arc. This is also the first time we see Spinner question whether the League really is about Stain’s ideology or not, and Shigaraki responds by reassuring him that they’re making a necessary sacrifice.

Since this is the point in the series where Shigaraki begins to really place his trust and respect in the League, it really shows with how he trusts Spinner’s driving enough to sit on top of the damn truck. And speaking of Spinner’s driving, this is the first time we get a glimpse into his character beyond the fanboy, scenes that we were unfortunately robbed of in the anime.

Spinner’s love for video games immediately gives him something in common with Shigaraki, and the both of them frequently use video game lingo to describe their battle strategies and thought processes.

(Spinner’s face in the corner absolutely sends me.)

From then on, their interactions go into a radio silence until the MVA arc kicks in, and this is where their relationship really begins to take off.

After we get some exposition on heteromorphic discrimination from Spinner, we return to the League in their temporary hideout where we discover that they’re not doing too hot. They’re at a stalemate, unable to really do anything too productive, which prompts Spinner to speak up. He’s frustrated with not knowing what direction they’re going in, and understandably so, because right now, the League is his only place to go. If he left, he would be entirely on his own again, and this time with the heroes breathing down his neck.

He goes into brief detail about the kind of harsh environment he came from and why he was inspired by Stain, and in the heat of the moment, he doesn’t think twice about grabbing the front of Shigaraki’s shirt, the man who could disintegrate him with one touch. Spinner’s got mad balls, I’ll give him that.

Now, it’s known that Shigaraki isn’t too fond of Stain, but he still doesn’t get angry at all, even when Spinner is right up in his face. He remains calm, patient, and is ready to explain what he wants to happen (until he gets interrupted by Machia, of course).

Fast-forward to when they’ve all been warped inside the doctor’s lab and Shigaraki now has to present his conviction to Ujiko - Spinner’s expression is a little difficult to read here, but it seems his expectations for what Shigaraki has to say are low.

However, when Shigaraki speaks, his words deeply resonate with Spinner, and it becomes clear that Shigaraki had listened very closely to Spinner’s frustrated rant back in the hideout.

That last panel is especially interesting and drawn in a very deliberate way. Notice how, as Shigaraki is explaining his feelings, everyone except for Spinner is either confused or uninterested, and the panel is framed so that Spinner is the only one looking directly at Shigaraki. It very subtly conveys how Spinner is the sole person in the room who understands how Shigaraki feels, because despite coming from completely different backgrounds and experiencing completely different levels of trauma, Spinner and Shigaraki still hold the exact same sentiments when it comes to their innermost thoughts and desires.

So, needless to say, Spinner is now somewhat invested, and ready to pay close attention to Shigaraki’s future actions.

The next time we see them, it’s a month and a half later, and here we see Spinner relaying his concerns about Stain once again to Toga.

It seems that he’s talking more to himself than to Toga, and it reveals his insecurities about his place in the League. He’s debating on whether or not he should stay or leave, and which is the better option. He appears to be willing to wait a little longer to see things through however; he wants to see where Shigaraki’s pursuit of his dream takes him.

(That’s pretty home of sexual of you, Spinner.)

Cut to when the League are battling with the MLA - Toga gets caught up with Curious, Twice runs off to go look for her, and Compress and Dabi are separated from the group via Geten, leaving Spinner and Shigaraki to fight together. Spinner is the first to witness Shigaraki’s Quirk suddenly evolve to where the decay will spread to whatever is touching it, and he’s quite amazed by it.

They begin to get a little overwhelmed with how many soldiers they’re up against, and since Shigaraki is in a very hazy, sleep-deprived state, Spinner voices his concern for him. Shigaraki brushes his own health off to the side to bring up his uncertainty in his decision to fight the MLA, and he asks for Spinner’s opinion on the matter, showing that once again, Shigaraki listens to and values what his allies have to say. This time it’s Spinner’s turn to reassure Shigaraki that he made the right choice, allowing him to refocus on getting to the tower.

Shortly after, the Twices show up to help escort Shigaraki to the tower, and Spinner takes this opportunity to help lighten the burden by taking out the politician, who is basically giving the MLA soldiers stat boosts.

In the midst of his fight, he reflects on where he came from and how he got here, and he finally solidifies why he wants to follow Shigaraki. After realising that they share the same sentiments, he too wants to see the horizon that Shigaraki is envisioning. Shigaraki “lit a fire in his heart”, and as all he can think about is helping him in whatever way he can, he comes to accept that it’s fine if he’s just coming along for the ride.

(”I’ve got nothing I love” Are you sure about that-)

As we come to the grand finale of the battle, Shigaraki obliterates a huge chunk of the city, levelling it completely, and Spinner is the only other member from the League to witness it.

He’s completely awestruck, and when it comes to Spinaraki, it doesn’t get any gayer than these two lines parallelling one another:

Some post-development crumbs

Now that we have their relationship established and developed, we can poke at the smaller stuff that takes place afterwards.

The first little crumb we get is when Shigaraki is introduced on stage in the room beneath the MLA mansion. The other League members are waiting for their cue to walk out, and Spinner’s heart beats as he watches Shigaraki intently.

After the speech, Shigaraki collapses from exhaustion, and while Compress simply remarks on how it’s a miracle he was still standing, Spinner expresses legitimate surprise and concern.

And for one last crumb until we see them interact again, I just think it’s cute that Spinner is in the support regiment of the PLF, yet again continuing the notion of Spinner wanting to help Shigaraki however he can.

In conclusion…

Spinaraki is a surprisingly soft and wholesome villain ship with a lot of fluff potential. Just two local gaymers who want to get back at society for condemning them, and who have each other’s complete support and loyalty.

Shigaraki has a huge soft-spot for his fellow outcasts, and Spinner is no exception. He accepts Spinner for who he is, doesn’t make any condescending remarks about him or his appearance, and remains patient and calm even when Spinner gets frustrated, making sure to listen and take in every word that’s said. He values Spinner as a person, and that ends up meaning so much for Spinner in the long run.

Spinner was someone who had no desires of his own, and nowhere to go where he felt safe and accepted. Even after taking up Stain’s ideals and joining the League, he was uncertain if he still belonged there - he’s noticed how there is no longer a trace of Stain’s ideology within the League, and he’s still faced discrimination in the form of Dabi calling him a lizard during the highway scene, something which the CRC does at the beginning of the MVA arc. However, Shigaraki ended up becoming Spinner’s reason for staying, finally giving him purpose to his life. They feel the same when it comes to acting out against society, and they’re able to understand one another on that emotional level. They have plenty in common, and it’s very clear now that Spinner is fully-prepared to follow Shigaraki to the ends of the earth.

Spinaraki’s dynamic is severely underrated, and the concept of Spinner - who has no prior romantic experience - crushing on the world’s new destructive god is too good to pass up. And the video game dates? 10/10, so damn adorable, they could bond over so many different games and just chill out when they don’t feel like going outside. Not to mention it’s just so good how Shigaraki isn’t fazed by Spinner’s appearance and how Spinner desperately needs that from someone, because this boy has obviously not been loved at all and craves that kind of connection (I mean, just look at how easily flustered he got from Mandalay’s flirting; no wonder he was pissed about it afterwards, now that we know what kind of history he’s had. That was probably the first time anyone’s ever complimented his appearance, and it just ended up being a dirty trick).

So yeah, Spinaraki has my whole heart, and I can’t wait to see them interact more (pls lord Horikoshi, give us Spinner reacting to buffraki when they reunite, I need to see his gay little heart panic for a whole second). Their dynamic is one of the cutest within the League, and I really hope more people see it when the MVA arc gets animated.

I hope you all enjoyed reading this - have a cute little sketch my good friend @batsyart did as a bonus!

#spinaraki #spinneraki #shigaraki #spinner #mha #bnha #my hero academia #boku no hero academia #mha manga spoilers #bnha manga spoilers #meta #analysis

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theteapotofdoom · 5 years ago

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I believe shigaraki is beyond redemption, but I am curious about his reaction to all for one’s part in nana’s death, all might’s connection to her, and if possibly he knew he was being used by his master because of his name. Maybe he already suspected all for one was using him and he doesn’t care about him murdering his grandma and that all might was connected to her. But I also wonder if midoriya finds out about his past, he may try to save or reform tomura. What do u think?

It’s a tough question to answer because I think that this could go in many many many different directions!

It’s so frustrating to me that we didn’t get much of Shigaraki’s thoughts on his recovered memories AFTER his fight with Re Destro. We had his narration while he was remembering, but we didn’t really see him thinking back on it or processing it when everything calmed down. I assume Hori is saving that for later, but as of now, I think it’s hard to tell how he feels about Hana, Nana and the rest of his family. He seems to have accepted what happened, and even to have embarrassed it in a way, but I want to know more!!! We don’t even know how he feels about Nana being a hero and about his past dream of becoming a hero, or even how he feels about AFO for kind of hiding this from him for years. Did his feelings about AFO change just a little bit? Does he see him in a different light? I really want Shig and AFO to be reunited just to see how their interactions have changed since the AFO/AM fight.

REVEAL YOUR SECRETS HORIKOSHI! WHAT ARE YOU UP TO?

I just answered an ask about whether or not I thought that Shigaraki would kill AFO. I went in-depth about some ideas and talked about some of the things that you mention here, so I invite you to check it out for complementary thoughts about what could eventually happen between AFO and Shig.

Unlike you, I actually don’t think that Shigaraki is beyond redemption. I don’t think it’s the most likely option, and it’s not even something I would necessarily want (unless it’s very well done) but I still think it’s a strong possibility. Even though he is a ruthless and scary villain, Shigaraki is also a very sympathetic character. We saw that he was initially a very kind-hearted boy before being failed by hero society and twisted through AFO’s hands. His redemption would fit one of the main themes of the story about “saving people’s heart”, and we could see Deku succeed where All Might and the heroes failed years ago. Again, not the most likely option and not necessarily my favourite, but still a strong possibility. At least, I definitely think that Deku would try to save him if he learned the truth. It wouldn’t be an easy and immediate decision, he would still hate Shigaraki for a while, but I think that this is the conclusion he would eventually come to. There are also ALL THOSE ERI/SHIG PARALLELS THAT HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE AT SOME POINT! I could see their similarities being a decisive factor in Deku’s decision to save Shigaraki’s heart. He would realise that Eri was saved, and Shigaraki wasn’t.

I could also see Shig knowing and not caring, just like you said. The MVA arc was pretty much a “rebirth” for him, where he freed himself from his past and his memories and decided to focus on the present (which is the LOV and the destruction of heroes). So I could see him decide that none of what AFO did “behind the scenes” matters, and that the only thing that matters is where he is today. This could mean that he is either even more grateful to AFO than he already was OR that he finally detached himself from AFO as another piece of his past, and that he wants to do his own thing now.

Aaaaah so much to think about! I’m sorry, I feel like I didn’t actually answer anything, I just threw some thoughts out there! But like I said, it’s something that could go in MANY different ways, and I don’t really have a strong opinion on which one is the most likely. I’m not even sure which one I would prefer! But this is definitely fun to think about.

This is one of the many reasons why Shig is my favourite character. He is so dense, rich, layered and complicated that his story and his arch could go in a dozen different directions and all of them would be amazing! I love this boy.

#shigaraki tomura #durbinfan13 #all for one #my hero academia #bnha

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ignitification · 3 years ago

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at this point d.ku saving shiggy would just feel hollow. of all these 10 solo d.ku chapters he hasn't had any emotional or mental development/understanding. Like d.ku just isn't where HK's writing shines. Not giving him any tragic backstory may have seemed like good subversion at the start but rn my emotional attachment to his growth/lack of it is just at an all time low. And yass way to make another pro hero look infantile due to MC-armour. Istg as soon as any character interacts with either en.dv or d.ku they take negative infinity in power, potential and likeability. Even the vestiges went down on the likeable scale. Also, these chapters were deserved more by literally any other character.

I'd begin addressing your last point anon, and by saying that while on one hand I agree with you, on the other I really understand that on some level (except physical) these chapters are needed for two reasons. First of all, because BNHA has picked up at ‘intense pace’ which translates into a lot of stuff happening all at once (It took us 285 chapters for Bakugou to admit that he cares about Izuku, and then we got in the span of 20 chapters Touya’s reveal, Mr. Compress face reveal, Mirio is back, BJ is alive, Todoroki’s backstory, Tartarus breakout, the name of the 1st OfA User, Izuku dropping out of UA, Overhaul and Lady N - just to name a few), which consequently means that we are fast approaching the final battle (excluding the Traitor affair, the grounds for the last arc are all already in place) of AfO against Midoriya, which bring me to the second point being Izuku, as also confirmed by himself, would not be able to save Shigaraki and also destroy AfO in the shape he is (or rather was, when leaving the hospital), meaning that he needs an upgrade of his abilities, and he needs it quickly. These chapters, unfortunately, are exactly that: a boring build-up needed in order to show us Izuku’s progress in managing OfA. Therefore, while I do agree that it would be nice to have other characters (from which we haven’t heard from in ages, like Toga and Bakugou), I also sadly understand why exactly we are at a halt in terms of ‘story progress’. And this is mainly due, as you pointed out, to the fact that Izuku is definitely not where HK’s writing shines, not in the slightest.

Izuku’s main flaw is that he does lack some sort of baseline growth which in his case should translate into less hero worshipping and more concentration into his rightful mission of wanting to change the status quo (by saving the villain). HK planted the seed, and at some point it feels like he forgot to water it, and while still holding the principle (on some level, as we saw in his fight with Muscular), it still feels very superficial for something that should be the main goal and more interesting lapel of the manga? I totally understand how someone would feel dejected when faced with this characterisation, especially if the character in question is the Main Character, the story is ending and he STILL appeals to the only thing which caused the entire problem.

As for me personally, I am still very much attached to Izuku and the Vestiges (because nowadays they represent an interesting development in the Quirk area, in a scientific and symbolic aspect, which I’d like to be explained and explored more, but let’s be realistic - this is a shounen and fans eat this content like famished lions just because it is content, with no critical thinking whatsoever), but I do admit that sometimes I feel frustrated because my main issue with BNHA is how is actually treats its victims and the way people feel attached to toxic traditions (and in particular Izuku’s attachment to the notions of hero as represented by AM, and his will to copy him in the slightest detail). This is even more evident for Endeavour, who seems a catalysis for bad decisions and just a cluster of condoning actions which would not be accepted if done by anyone else, and a lot of crap justifications about themes like violence and abuse, and the implicit lack of consequences each of these actions have in the manga (because preoccupied with more important things, sure - but I think a line would be enough).

Nonetheless, yeah - Izuku should have shown some kind of advancement (not Quirk-wise), but instead in a way to contrast Gran Torino’s view and the example set by older heroes, but instead we get a team up with those same heroes, with Izuku as a bait (which, very much is a problem for both him because he still disregards himself, and the heroes who accept this condition voluntarily) and now that they get separated and Izuku is fighting the possibly only threat (besides the remaining villain at large - and because I really cannot define Lady Nagant as a villain, more like an anti-hero) and he is still winning? Where is the realisation that maybe, even with his Quirk - what Izuku is missing is actually the experience of the pain and grief of this world, which he should have acquired since he appositely left UA? I would agree that until Izuku reaches a level in which he can admit to himself that heroes are not what this world needs, but instead a more inclusive and less-Quirk based society (and the fun fact here, is that he himself is a victim of that and instead he just lets it happen because he is selfless that way) which does not allow loopholes in terms of bad behaviour and where villains are not villains by default when they spur on a bad action, but instead can be guided on a different path - since no such injustices exist in the first place, it would feel very superficial and forced for him to save Shigaraki. It would be seen as a duty, he is forcing himself to make because he consider himself a hero, instead of the contrary and that he is a hero because he decided to save Shigaraki. I hope this can change in the next few weeks, and a good first step would be to have Izuku being overpowered by Lady Nagant - finally showing Izuku that weaknesses are real and that he is still human, and that there is no concrete rule by which someone could be judged as weak or strong (especially if we talk Quirks), and then finally brought forward to AfO, so we can see how he reacts to a. Overhaul; b. AfO; c. ShigarAfO.

I do not want to hope too much, but at the same time there are reasons for which I am still holding a candle for that. I hope this helps believing, even a little, that hope for a better narrative is still possible. Thank you for the question and thank you for reading.

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